Eas banned some prop useage

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    • Eas banned some prop useage

      I expect this to be my last post initiating a Rule topic [it was a work-in-progress].

      A while back op$k!ll@ [sp?] complained to Eas about a bunch of defences. They went around the map with Eas deleting props here and there. I distracted them from visiting Miracle's garage :P
      Eas was getting hot about the props and was saying 'which admin(s) do I have to ban'.

      It seems that Eas does not want prop arrangements that put the attacker at a great disadvantage: eg particularly ones where attacker has to strafe.

      We all 'know' that fence mazes are banned [maze = mess-of-fences, not necessarily a traditional maze.]

      To help the Trial admins and to generate discussion by all, I made some sample prop installations in an apartment at the bottom of the Luxury building -the one near the Ball and Horses. (see door #494.)

      I would like to see a concept and philosophy spelled out by Eas of course. In the mean time you have the samples to view.


    • Re: Eas banned some prop useage

      Syle wrote:


      is this really a topic?

      how many times have i said, no mazes. no walkways that are not a straight line. what is not understood?

      What is not understood is the grey area's and wiggle room there is - Theres more advantageous prop arrangements than just mazes and straight-lined walkways. We want the FULL list of what eas wants to ban us for ;)
      sniper santa misslelauncher
    • Re: Eas banned some prop useage

      Syle wrote:


      is this really a topic?

      how many times have i said, no mazes. no walkways that are not a straight line. what is not understood?



      The TOPIC is the fact that there are some visual examples available at present. Many people don't get the words.
      Many people haven't heard YOU say it. The Players have to understand it too, not just the admins.
      In the post I am not criticising the rules - just saying that we are left to guess about what can be done as there are no philosophies spelled out. I tried to paraphrase Eas's objections. That HELPS admins know what they can build.

      And some examples in PICTURES/actual of what was banned helps interpretation too.

      For instance- your "no walkways that are not a straight line" allows implementations that Eas has banned.
      eg a long fence down the length of a room from the front door. [Picture one in Spiral Apts.] The attacker has to run the length of the room and into the kitchen. The defender can be by the innerdoor that is up by the front door - the attacker has his back to the defender, OR, has to be a good strafer. Hence Eas HAS banned one of these [he deleted it that day I mentioned].
      And, does shoot-through fences vs solid walls make a difference?

      You have four 'new' admins in the loop at present and I think that talking this through does help them.

      As for "no mazes" - I have had to answer several people that the word isn't meant literally - here a 'maze' means a mess of fences as I said originally.


      I wouldn't have bothered making the demo props or doing the Post if there had not been tons of discussion in-game indicating that it was worthwhile to do so. Least ways, I thought it was worthwhile. I did say that I expected this Topic to be my last attempt at initiating posts about Rules, wiki, Motd. It is just too bloody hard to get anywhere useful, so I give up on it.


    • Re: Eas banned some prop useage

      TF2274_r.2.0 wrote:


      If it's a tunnel and ANY crouching is needed to make it through, or if the tunnel has more than 1 corner, then it's illegal.


      Thx TF -we got the "no crouch tunnel" from Eas's "iffy conditional rules" post. ie "-NO FUCKING CROUCH TUNNELS. FINAL WORD. (This includes even a single hole)". I wonder how many players can say the reason for the No Crouch?
      But I haven't heard the "more than 1 corner" bit before. [I hadn't heard Syle's straight line rule before he posted earlier either; I could apply that to your tunnel and suggest that even 1 corner is illegal.]

      BTW, you have given us more What Not To Do. Can you tell us Why Not To Do this?
      If we had a good 'Why', then we could have realised about the "more than 1 corner" without having to be told ?
      Once I got Eas to tell me about the 'no strafing' aspect I had a much greater understanding of which prop arrangements he would ban. Some of you guys have had years of rubbing shoulders and getting the concepts by osmosis almost. Not true for all these recent people [me included]. If someone trots out enough rules we can eventually induce and deduce the reasoning; why not just tell us the reasoning and save the hassle? [Anyone who says there hasn't been extreme hassle over prop arrangements just hasn't played much in the last 9 months :)) ]
      You (TF) told us that the "Cock Walk" is banned when Veg got me to build him one in the first days of your map {January}. I got that added to the motd early on - it is stated as a Principle to observe rather than one specific instance too; I contend it is more useful that way.

      Maybe this story illuminates my asking:-
      [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epaminondas_and_His_Auntie ]


      Everyone.... please read that story. Please.
    • Re: Eas banned some prop useage

      I think some of the confusion here that needs to be addresses is the wording and the fact that none of this was ever really announced from what I can tell, and if it was, it was done poorly or not in an obviously place other than word of mouth. Now that it's added, the wording given from multiple people has been different for mazes. One compared mazes to a general issue with strafing and being hard to avoid gun fire. Another one i've heard is something like this

      would be allowed, but this literally allows no ability to do anything but walk in a straight line and is more dangerous than a maze.

      While something like this

      Could be made in certain ways where there is no crouch tunnel or maze, yet the player is stick there for ages and is again more dangerous than a maze, yet under other wordings that have been used, this wouldn't be allowed as it causes it to be much harder for a cop to cuff for example.

      Again

      or

      has also been debated.

      Syle wrote:


      is this really a topic?

      how many times have i said, no mazes. no walkways that are not a straight line. what is not understood?


      Where has this been documented and clearly explained? I've seen the obvious mazes but never no walkways that are not a straight line. People interpret things differently. No walkways that are not in a straight-line for example some may interpret it as this

      being okay, while others may assume because a turn is required that it's not. Even if it's logical or not logical. The more we can detail a rule, the less this happens.






      Crouch tunnels were tested and I believe most everyone agrees that the ban should stay, but with mazes and other things getting removed, how long until it is only house decorations can be made? This may help cops for example, but that won't make the playerbase as a whole happy. And people getting worried that "tricks" that are deadlier than mazes are at risk to get banned because the "reason" some may mention is the difficulty of breaking into houses fall under the maze ban.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BobVeka ().