Pinned Wipe the slate clean #Nolimits2016

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    • I agree with volar, I've been working on my place trying to make it more fair, been busy with irl stuff though lol, make it so both parties can see and shoot at each other, defenders would be allowed to keep crouch tunnels and barricades as long as cops have their "skillcuff" all the cop would need to do is hit the criminal instead of killing them

      Defensive props should be to deal with intruder rebels more than cops
      #HailTheGoldenPoon
    • My suggested rules/wording go as follows:
      1: All props must be visible. If you wish to make black props, neighboring props have to show a difference in color / tone.
      2: Resizing props is okay as long as the prop being resized is not one-way view. However, one-way view may be used against a solid wall
      (to preserve cheap window blockings)
      3: All defensive props MUST show both the attacker and defender. If there's a disadvantage to one side, there needs to be a disadvantage to the other side to balance it out.
      (meaning you CAN use shoothrough props as long as both sides cant see each other)
      4: No placing props that will have to be 'unfrozen when the map crashes' for players.
      sniper santa misslelauncher
    • Alex, what you have written can be considered 'concepts' - they need converting to Rules. I'll try the same on these as I did on Beef's and Ant's. There is a lot of subjectivity that needs to be specified out.
      Some of you agree on some aspects.

      I can't stay now, please don't reword yet, but these things jump out....
      1). ..... a large black dumpster can defeat this. And Colour depth is more important than Black.
      2). .... agrees
      3). .... disagrees with itself and precludes solid walls
      4). .... idea? Let them agree to wait for Reset OR they Buy the service. Also ref args re Admin advantage. Should include jamming doors here.
    • 1). we want lots of input on those pictures.

      2). I am looking at what people are saying and then I am making a short pithy statement for the MOTD. I then want the originators to 'test' my short 'rule' against their intentions.
    • I beleive that the black props should be banned, but the gravity doors are alright. I may be a little biased considering I have one. But the gravity doors are alright as long as you can stand while useing them. Making it faster for people to pass through.
      #HailTheGoldenPoon
    • HAND OF DOOM wrote:

      I am more than willing to give up my "VISION IMPAIRING INTERIOR DEFENSE STRUCTURE" , as seen in the photos above. However , I believe we should continue to use resizing , and have the ability to "black out" exterior windows.
      As I said above they can be used to block windows and other places that we can't actually walk or shoot through. As long as it abides by (2) then it'd be fine.

    • ok, a slight regrouping to consider what has been commented-----


      I would like the commenters to locate the broad rules suggested by Beef [post #61 ] and then refer to the reduced word rules that I used to paraphrase his [post #62 ].

      I would then ask them to apply those proposals to their own ideas of propping to see what they could still achieve. Try testing some of your favourites. I want to know what problems arise if that wording is used. What are the ambiguities, especially in the shortened version?




      Example - the use of a resized [and even colour changed] non-oneway vision prop across a door way is allowed. eg a blastdoor instead of the currently favoured TV.

      Beef and I ironed out that one in a loonnnggg chat. He made a small edit.
      ...clip....
      Big Daddy BeefDick: If a blast door was resized and covered the door then it'd be fine since Neither player could see one another.
      Big Daddy BeefDick: It's ''Fair''
      Big Daddy BeefDick: My gripe is with 1 ways and resize
      Koala-Kly: NO, actually you required resize to be transparent to a degree
      Big Daddy BeefDick: Where does it say I required that?
      Koala-Kly: My point was totally about a door opening.
      Big Daddy BeefDick: Ah I see it, I shoulda stated or neither can
      Koala-Kly: equal transparency
      Big Daddy BeefDick: Resize may not be used for Defensive Propping unless the Prop is made Transparent to a level that both sides can easily see through or a Prop that Neither Player can see through. Cosmetics are fine.
      Big Daddy BeefDick: Fixed
      ...clip....
    • Volar wrote:

      My list would then entail.
      1. Resize may not be used for Defensive Propping unless the Prop is made Transparent to a level that both sides can easily see through or a Prop that Neither Player can see through. Cosmetics are fine.
      2. Propping Defensively should be done in a way so that both players can either A. See and Shoot One another or B. Not be able to shoot each other but the Defending Play could see the Attacking Player.
      3. 0 0 0 255(Black) is prohibited from Color Scheming an entire home unless the Prop Layout doesn't create a Maze or Blackout Room.
      4. Transparency on props needs to be easily identifiable upon entering a room with said prop. If you enter and room and can see the prop then it needs to be at a level that is quick to notice.
      5. You may Block off all but One door to enter your home.
      6. Creating a Defensive Prop set up that makes more Kick-Doors than the house would normally have is Prohibited.
      7. Crouch Tunnels may be used for Defensive Propping as long as it's in accordance to Number 2 above.
      8. Gravity Doors are Prohibited.
      If I need to be more precise then speak up but that would be the list that I personally would like to see in the MOTD.

      Explanation on Defensive Propping.

      Defensive Propping is setting up your home with props that work in your favor against other players. Props that are set up to impede movement or to block view are examples of Defensive Propping.
      If your props give you a clear advantage over Cops or other Rebels breaking into your home through the use of Movement Impairment or Vision Blocking then they are considered Defensive Props.



      #HomeInvasion2016

      Koala wrote:

      those are going to have to be worked on [mainly] individually. Some interact but this is going to have to be done slowly one at a time in the open forum. Here are some comments anyway.


      The defensive propping definition [quite a nice one] is still too subjective ...as is "both sides can easily see through" Been there Done that.

      The points you list - for MOTD use the words need to be severely cut.
      As with the one I made from Ant's suggestion.[and I have a mod so that it reflects one of your list too] Try some Do and Do Not constructions. BTW - I would oppose Grouping rules under 'allowed' 'disallowed' headings UNLESS the Do/Do not still appears in each rule.


      for 1). does this produce the same result? : - 1). Defensive Propping 'resize' must meet the min/max Transparency Standard.
      ie Min Transparency would be opaque ie alpha = 255 and Max Transparency would match the Standard ... 863 /db_create models/props_junk/wood_crate001a.mdl 1 with alpha = 100


      for 2). do you mean this? 2). One-way-vision props must not be shoot through.

      re 3). define maze. Eas's def is a 'fake' one. We had a rule that spoke of the number of bends. The rule that was suspended is "Do not make any kind of maze for players."
      So you mean two rules...
      3a). no darkout mazes [meet Colour Standard]
      3b). no darkout rooms [meet Colour Standard]
      [remember - the details are in WIKI - the succinct rule is in MOTD]


      re 4). We HAD a transparency Reference Standard - it was suspended to discuss resizing.
      It can be reinstated easily for any instance of use of the changecolor command.
      ---- 863 /db_create models/props_junk/wood_crate001a.mdl 1 with alpha = 100 ------

      re 5). already in MOTD..... "All but one entrance can be blocked off.
      The Prop doing the blocking must not intrude on public space." I would add visual intrusion too, and in Wiki that it must be done in a way to deter doorkicks. I would move that second sentence of the rule to Wiki.

      re 6). I would rather see proppers have the challenge. It can't be done that often anyway. Kickdoor price has been lowered to 1/3 of what it was.
      The suspended rule reads "Do not create a situation that produces more lockpicking or kickdoor actions to break into houses than intended."

      re 7). in what way isn't that already covered by 2) ?


      re 8). No GravGunDoors [the defs and examples would be in Wiki]

      420alex wrote:

      My suggested rules/wording go as follows:
      1: All props must be visible. If you wish to make black props, neighboring props have to show a difference in color / tone.
      2: Resizing props is okay as long as the prop being resized is not one-way view. However, one-way view may be used against a solid wall
      (to preserve cheap window blockings)
      3: All defensive props MUST show both the attacker and defender. If there's a disadvantage to one side, there needs to be a disadvantage to the other side to balance it out.
      (meaning you CAN use shoothrough props as long as both sides cant see each other)
      4: No placing props that will have to be 'unfrozen when the map crashes' for players.

      Koala wrote:

      Alex, what you have written can be considered 'concepts' - they need converting to Rules. I'll try the same on these as I did on Beef's and Ant's. There is a lot of subjectivity that needs to be specified out.
      Some of you agree on some aspects.

      I can't stay now, please don't reword yet, but these things jump out....
      1). ..... a large black dumpster can defeat this. And Colour depth is more important than Black.
      2). .... agrees
      3). .... disagrees with itself and precludes solid walls
      4). .... idea? Let them agree to wait for Reset OR they Buy the service. Also ref args re Admin advantage. Should include jamming doors here.

      These are what I'd like to see as Propping Rules. Can we get some agrees or disagrees to get this hashed out.


      Admin Propping Rules - See Wiki for Examples.

      1. Resize command may be used on Non-One-Way-View props. One Way View props may only be used on inaccessible windows.
      2. Props must be placed in a way that Shoot Outs are "Fair" for both sides.
      3. Black may not be used in Mazes or in groups which create a Black-Out Room.
      4. Transparent Props must be easily identified upon entering a home.
      5. Props that require an Admin to Unfreeze them after a Restart or Crash are Prohibited.
      Admin Propping Wiki

      1. Resize is to be used on props for Cosmetic purposes or to block a window while allowing the player to still be able to see out of it while not being seen. If used to block a window then said window needs to be inaccessible. Glass Doors or Windows that are doors are Prohibited from having a One-Way-View prop.
      2. Fair to both sides means that Both Players can see and shoot at one another. It is also considered Fair if a Player can see the other Player but not be able to fire at them. If a Player can see the other and shoot at them but the Player being fired at cannot see and shoot back then it is considered Unfair.
      3. Black-Out Rooms are rooms where a Player enters and can only see Black causing the Player to get Disoriented. Black-Out Mazes are the same idea but have Black Props hidden inside that create a route that a Player must traverse to get to the end.
      4. Transparency must be easily seen when the prop is within the Players View. Exceptions being Props behind other Props or in other rooms, however these props must still meet the Transparency when coming into view.

    • eldrun wrote:

      I agree with everything BUT number two. But, if the shoot out visually appears to be blocked due to resize it shouldn't be there.

      Feel free to discuss I've been open with ideas with propping lately because of some of the bases turning up.
      Thats why I wrote "Fairs" meaning in the Wiki part. Ideally the House should always be propped in a way thats leaning more towards the tenant since they live there. Basically One-Way-See Throughs due to Resize are ruled out due to being overly advantageous to the tenant.

    • Volar wrote:

      eldrun wrote:

      I agree with everything BUT number two. But, if the shoot out visually appears to be blocked due to resize it shouldn't be there.

      Feel free to discuss I've been open with ideas with propping lately because of some of the bases turning up.
      Thats why I wrote "Fairs" meaning in the Wiki part. Ideally the House should always be propped in a way thats leaning more towards the tenant since they live there. Basically One-Way-See Throughs due to Resize are ruled out due to being overly advantageous to the tenant.
      that seems agreeable then.
    • Volar wrote:

      These are what I'd like to see as Propping Rules. Can we get some agrees or disagrees to get this hashed out.


      Admin Propping Rules - See Wiki for Examples.


      Resize command may be used on Non-One-Way-View props. One Way View props may only be used on inaccessible windows.

      Props must be placed in a way that Shoot Outs are "Fair" for both sides.

      Black may not be used in Mazes or in groups which create a Black-Out Room.

      Transparent Props must be easily identified upon entering a home.

      Props that require an Admin to Unfreeze them after a Restart or Crash are Prohibited.
      Admin Propping Wiki


      Resize is to be used on props for Cosmetic purposes or to block a window while allowing the player to still be able to see out of it while not being seen. If used to block a window then said window needs to be inaccessible. Glass Doors or Windows that are doors are Prohibited from having a One-Way-View prop.

      Fair to both sides means that Both Players can see and shoot at one another. It is also considered Fair if a Player can see the other Player but not be able to fire at them. If a Player can see the other and shoot at them but the Player being fired at cannot see and shoot back then it is considered Unfair.

      Black-Out Rooms are rooms where a Player enters and can only see Black causing the Player to get Disoriented. Black-Out Mazes are the same idea but have Black Props hidden inside that create a route that a Player must traverse to get to the end.

      Transparency must be easily seen when the prop is within the Players View. Exceptions being Props behind other Props or in other rooms, however these props must still meet the Transparency when coming into view.

      Volar wrote:

      Thats why I wrote "Fairs" meaning in the Wiki part. Ideally the House should always be propped in a way thats leaning more towards the tenant since they live there. Basically One-Way-See Throughs due to Resize are ruled out due to being overly advantageous to the tenant.

      Only doing this due to the prior page having all my Images (Sorry)

      Can we get some other Admins opinions, even Basics input is encouraged.

    • BPN17 wrote:

      some houses have ridiculous props and would like to get TVs banned so opening opinions here lol also mazes.
      Not to sound mean but did you read the page 4 of this thread? The above set of ''rules'' also bans TVs how they are currently being used. Mazes are also on the list but only Black Out versions are prohibited. Regular mazes still have to meet the above rules standard.

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