why "unpacking" doesnt work

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  • why "unpacking" doesnt work

    maybe i was misinformed about the reason for unpacking but my understanding was that it was to prevent menu binding.

    the issue with this is that the unpacking thing happens after the weapon is already selected, so it affects everyone the same way. you could argue it encourages menubinding bc the two seconds delay after using a weapon makes the speed of menu selection much more vital to a DM.

    a side effect of this is that huztler's method of menuselection (having weapons menu ready to use on spawn) is more viable bc you can just select the weapon you want to use right when you die, and the game gives the weapon to you automatically at spawn. this means you can have the menu closed and cursor ready right when you spawn.
    ^this isnt a bad thing to me, just thought id bring it up

    EDIT: Message received @Volar, thanks.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by mdmkiller ().

  • I'm assuming since you told mdmkiller to bind his weapons and ammo, the menu bind rule is no longer being discussed, but rather decided upon and will be allowed? Or are you saying that only weapons and ammo are allowed to be bound to keys?

    I'd suggest keeping the rule in place for items like Sex and Hugs, unless those items will have cooldowns too.

  • Well with the whole menu select binds the cool down denies the player a big advantage using menu select binds. If we were to do away with the rule a cool down effect (Unpacking) would have to be applied to all items or people will just run around hitting their sex binds and basically almost being invincible. Also maybe implementing various cool down times will help even out the playing field, lets take sex as an example. Maybe having say a 5s unpack time so that if that player hit said bind for use of sex there would still be a delay before it buffed hp and gives a chance for an attacking player to kill them before they got their hp buff. Other items like food or anything in my opinion would be fine to bind as of now due to once the player takes damage it stops healing and the healing process takes time instead of being instant. (Also you will find if you try sit there and use food items repeatedly to gain more health, you will end up wasting food as it will not give the full amount of health.. Maybe like 20 hp less then if you used food singularly. it will however increase hp at a more quicker rate.)
    ☯The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting☯

  • Menu Binding Allowed (with cooldowns):

    Pros:
    -Experienced players with keybinds will have a more even playing field (won't have to rely on menu selecting skills)
    -Admins don't have to constantly spectate people
    -Easy access to repeat-use items like doorhacks

    Cons:
    -Players without keybinds will be at a disadvantage
    -RIP new players
    -Waiting for items to unpack is frustrating
    -Never see the beautiful menus ;(

  • If they do decide to rescind the menu bind rule then I would suggest like 10-15 seconds unpack time on items like sex because if you were to see a player coming at you with an RPG for example, you could just use the sex ahead of time, and with only a 5 second unpack time by the time the initial rocket hit you, you'd heal back up to 350hp almost immediately after if it's well timed. And this really applies to any weapon if you're paying attention and know when you're about to be attacked.

  • There will never be a cooldown on every item (unless someone else implements it) as that brings about such an imbalance for new players/people that can't bind and trying to explain even some of the simplest things to some people takes a long ass time, trying to explain menu binding to every single person will take 10x the amount of effort that it does to just spectate menu binders which is why I thought this idea was fucking retarded in the first place but I didn't really have a say in it so w/e.

  • The Doggy wrote:

    There will never be a cooldown on every item (unless someone else implements it) as that brings about such an imbalance for new players/people that can't bind and trying to explain even some of the simplest things to some people takes a long ass time, trying to explain menu binding to every single person will take 10x the amount of effort that it does to just spectate menu binders which is why I thought this idea was fucking retarded in the first place but I didn't really have a say in it so w/e.
    Thats simple, put an easy to understand Vmenuselect example in the MOTD.
    If people can't figure it out from there then thats their problem.

    If we went through with allowing Binding then Sex, Hugs and Steroids or any other sudden HP jumping effect would A. Need a CD or B. need to work like food but instead of giving health give suit.

  • Volar wrote:

    The Doggy wrote:

    There will never be a cooldown on every item (unless someone else implements it) as that brings about such an imbalance for new players/people that can't bind and trying to explain even some of the simplest things to some people takes a long ass time, trying to explain menu binding to every single person will take 10x the amount of effort that it does to just spectate menu binders which is why I thought this idea was fucking retarded in the first place but I didn't really have a say in it so w/e.
    Thats simple, put an easy to understand Vmenuselect example in the MOTD.If people can't figure it out from there then thats their problem.

    If we went through with allowing Binding then Sex, Hugs and Steroids or any other sudden HP jumping effect would A. Need a CD or B. need to work like food but instead of giving health give suit.
    I respectfully disagree with everything you've said here, Volar. First off, I would say in my (limited) experience on this server I have rarely seen a new player who immediately read the entire motd (and there's already quite a bit in there). You may not deal with players that don't read it, but the only reason you're able to do that is because there are other people who do.

    As for the your second statement, I would just like to ask you: Who will be implementing that? I don't think you will be the one actually doing this. That doesn't invalidate your opinion, I just feel like it's something to remind you of when you're in disagreement with a developer.

  • Yeah, new players hardly ever read the entire MOTD and even when they're told to type /motd they still ask tons of questions that they could've found the answer to in the motd and/or wiki.

    I have to fully agree with dog, the menu binding idea is just ridiculous and in my opinion, it was absolutely fine the way it was prior to the weapon unpacking.

    It's not that difficult or time consuming to spectate a player that has been accused or suspected of menu binding and see if they're actually doing it or not. Especially since the majority of players don't know how to menu bind anyway.

  • Hercules wrote:

    It's not that difficult or time consuming to spectate a player that has been accused or suspected of menu binding and see if they're actually doing it or not. Especially since the majority of players don't know how to menu bind anyway.
    Spectating doesn't 100% show someone is Menu Binding, we've had several false reports and bans on players for Menu Binding after being Specc'd just to have the logs show it wasn't a bind.

    It's a waste of peoples time who can read logs to scroll through thousands of lines of logs for the possibility of a menu bind.

    By that I mean my time since the majority of Admins that do have Log Access don't actually look through the logs. I'd say only Syle, Sidezz, Doggy and myself actually peruse the logs.

    mdmkiller wrote:

    As for the your second statement, I would just like to ask you: Who will be implementing that? I don't think you will be the one actually doing this. That doesn't invalidate your opinion, I just feel like it's something to remind you of when you're in disagreement with a developer.
    Timer would be really simple, copy the existing code off Weapons or Ammo and place with an adjusted number on the ''problem'' items.

  • experimenting with unpacking time on instant hp items.

    Drugs wear off so its a bit more tricky. these are easily limited to 5 second unpack.

    the alternative is to make ALL forms of healing, heal over time as food is.


    for now, ammo, food and guns are more ballanced with the unpacking than they have ever been when people are using binds. the rest still need tweaking before removing the binding rule entirely.


    edit: running some tests, its actually way easier code wise to just make all healing done over time. might just do that for drugs and hugs

  • Volar wrote:

    Spectating doesn't 100% show someone is Menu Binding, we've had several false reports and bans on players for Menu Binding after being Specc'd just to have the logs show it wasn't a bind.
    It's a waste of peoples time who can read logs to scroll through thousands of lines of logs for the possibility of a menu bind.

    By that I mean my time since the majority of Admins that do have Log Access don't actually look through the logs. I'd say only Syle, Sidezz, Doggy and myself actually peruse the logs.
    A clear indication that somebody you are spectating is binding would be if they are running around equipping items without stopping. If they are smart enough to make it look legit and you still suspect them of using binds, then you could look at the logs from around the time that they were suspected or accused and copy paste those logs into WordPad or Notepad and use CTRL+F to search for their name to read logs specific to them. Or search for whatever command that would prove that they are binding if there is one.

  • Hercules wrote:

    Volar wrote:

    Spectating doesn't 100% show someone is Menu Binding, we've had several false reports and bans on players for Menu Binding after being Specc'd just to have the logs show it wasn't a bind.
    It's a waste of peoples time who can read logs to scroll through thousands of lines of logs for the possibility of a menu bind.

    By that I mean my time since the majority of Admins that do have Log Access don't actually look through the logs. I'd say only Syle, Sidezz, Doggy and myself actually peruse the logs.
    A clear indication that somebody you are spectating is binding would be if they are running around equipping items without stopping. If they are smart enough to make it look legit and you still suspect them of using binds, then you could look at the logs from around the time that they were suspected or accused and copy paste those logs into WordPad or Notepad and use CTRL+F to search for their name to read logs specific to them. Or search for whatever command that would prove that they are binding if there is one.
    i always just assumed that there wasnt an efficient way to search the logs and filter certain times but i have no idea.

    as for what volar said, i have to agree that its not fair to place the responsibility of keeping track on the only 4 people who check the logs.

    Volar wrote:



    Timer would be really simple, copy the existing code off Weapons or Ammo and place with an adjusted number on the ''problem'' items.
    if it really is that easy then youre totally right, i just wasnt sure.

  • going with heal over time option.

    this will change the following.

    -no unpacking on drugs
    -Hp gained from drugs will stay untill death
    -Other effects like gravity will still be temporary
    -Healing will be over time - same effect as food
    -Drugs are the only items healing passed 100hp.
    -Prices will increase on drugs to offset the HP buff.

    -hugs will be the same heal over time
    -considering allowing the ability to heal with food after raising max hp with hugs. (example: use hug, heal to 200hp. get damaged to 40hp. eat 2 cakes, heal back to 200hp.) effect is reset on death
    -effect wont be possible with drugs

    already tested in test server with health doping, works fine just need to add it for the remaining drugs and test out the hugs

  • How about rendering vmenuselect inoperative, and replace it with something that cannot be predicted or executed client-side by players. I think it was Mav or TF outlined that there was a way the other night when this came up as a topic of discussion in the server. Have to ask them about the specifics...

  • Already tried AddCommandListener hooking it but it doesn't work properly and if you can manage to hook the command it literally breaks all of sourcemods menus

    public Action Listener_MenuSelect(int Client, const char[] sCommand, int argc)
    {
    if (g_fMenuTime[Client] >= GetGameTime() - 0.5)
    return Plugin_Handled;
    else
    g_fMenuTime[Client] = GetGameTime();
    return Plugin_Continue;
    }