OCS

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    • I want to suggest "Operation Clean Sheets"

      First i really like the server, all the players and all the admins.
      But I feel that all the attempt's to reduce the income and make the players use more cash/items do not work as wanted (my opinion).

      There have been some gamechangers the last 6 months

      The biggest is the one that it dont count killing AFK`s.
      then the max 500locks, and resent the reduction of income when you are inactive for more then 3-4minutes.

      There is no point breaking locks to kill afk players anymore.
      The afk players have no cash on them, and you dont get elo points killing them.

      500 locks well that only is a problem for players that only have one door! On the last map i had a house that had 7 doors and with the right propping you had to go thru all the 7 doors to get to the "last" door. that's 3.5mil in lock breakers and jut to kill a AFK with 5k on him.

      Then the income reduction when going AFK! There are 2 things I don`t like about that! first when i gro weed or print my income changes I bet it happen if I go robbing to. The second thing is why cant you guys post changes on the forum or discord.

      Its not like I need the cash I got over 22mil but its one of the reasons I have the game on so I can grow print at the same time as I am at the office and traveling.

      Then you have the skin that only work one time for non VIP


      I suggest a full vipe, clean the server for all except the VIP player-part

      Make a countdown in game "like the VIP countdown"
      Make a transit for like 3/4 weeks
      Post everywhere that the server are going to get reset

      And then there is the part that players stop playing until the restart.
      I was thinking if admins takes all the statistics out ELO, high score, most playtime, most cash. Then we start the transit and have some contest while everybody can use the time to make new aliases, use all the cash, inventory
      Contest price for something like
      *Player most online
      *Admin most online
      *Vote for Best cop
      *Vote for player
      *Joker ticket

      No players can win more then one price.
      If the owner/owners think this seems interesting I can throw in 4-5 golden Vip in the pot.

      And at the end all the rich players with the Gollum syndrom regarding their gold,,,, I really think they will play like before.

      Thank you, and sorry for any misspelling this is not my native language :rolleyes:



      /Ghost
      If life treats you bad, always remember to do you dailie spin and when you have counted all the fucking new Crowbars
      then you realize that your day just went from bad to worse!
    • I don't agree with an econo reset. I've worked to get the money I have. As have many others. Some choose to spend it, some choose to save it for when the moment is right.

      Lowering salary while AFK for more than 3 minutes makes it pointless to AFK. Which makes it pointless to break into anyone's home and kill them. I do see a lot of players who don't play as often come back from a 3-5 month hiatus and start demanding an econo reset. Ghost would be the exception to that.

      But I have also noticed a trend that those who tend to go broke in the casino are the same ones who keep asking for a reset. Why punish those who save and grind to have the money, just because you keep spending all of it in the casino or other things?
    • Micobot wrote:

      @anonymous So for locks are you implying there should a hard limit for the home itself and not per door?

      Large updates are posted to discord #hl2dm-changelog, this one income drop must of been overlooked by accident.

      @KILL THRILL n SPILL economy resets wouldn't be neccessary if there was a equal out flow of funds as there is a in flow. Sadly we don't have this yet.
      How exactly do you propose an outflow of income that is equal to the influx? Everyone spends differently on different items for different purposes.
    • KILL THRILL n SPILL wrote:

      Micobot wrote:

      @anonymous So for locks are you implying there should a hard limit for the home itself and not per door?

      Large updates are posted to discord #hl2dm-changelog, this one income drop must of been overlooked by accident.

      @KILL THRILL n SPILL economy resets wouldn't be neccessary if there was a equal out flow of funds as there is a in flow. Sadly we don't have this yet.
      How exactly do you propose an outflow of income that is equal to the influx? Everyone spends differently on different items for different purposes.
      What do you want me to propose? Anything I do you'd be entirely against because it'd take money from you without you gaining from it.

      But hey I'll go for it anyway.
      1) Taxing based house key holders, property value and props would be a start. It's no mystery that some of the wealthiest players live in bases occupied by multiple players, multiple doors and immense prop base defenses & mazes. Which helps boost the ability to make money with less risk and make Gangs look like nothing more than glorified clan tags.

      2) Up keep on items and inventory. The more stuff you have the more it will cost to keep them in there otherwise they are disabled from oldest to newest until up keep fee can be paid. (not including items such as growing supplies)

      3) Give certain items such as door hacks limited uses based on the tier with all of them having a 20 second cooldown. Because let's be honest here, Doorhack, Cuffsaw, Lockpick are one time purchases that do cost a pretty penny but only once. Which doesn't mean much when you account for the fact the eco resets only happen after several years and you can make the money for those items within a day.

      4) A default - yet expensive bribe based on crime at cuff or jail. You could either bribe a cop cheap or pay a far higher amount to get out of jail. This would also give people an option to get out if a cop isn't online.

      5) Tighter margins of profit when growing or printing with reasonable chance of failure.

      6) A Premium currency with a 1:$ exchange rate that will allow players to purchase items from the VIP vendor or VIP time itself, similar to how you can exchange Gold for WoW Playtime.

      These are my suggestions, and i'm sure 99.9% of people will dislike them.
    • I agree with most of what anonymous said but the thing with eco resets is they never got and probably never will be announced but I think its time for an eco reset now.
      And to make it clear:
      Only syle decides when an eco reset takes place and Nobody else!!!

      Others then that the thing I hate most about our Current economy are the big super bases with 1000´s of locks and being owned by rich players. (basicly what Micbot said here)

      "Taxing based house key holders(...). It's no mystery that some of the wealthiest players live in bases occupied by multiple players, multiple doors and immense prop base defenses & mazes. Which helps boost the ability to make money with less risk(...)."


      It would be good in my point of view when you have to pay taxes when you have multible players living in a house but inventory is a bit tricky in my point of view. 80% of my Inventory that I have is not bought by me but rather from dailies and spins and spins. I think taxing Houses would be enoght at this point even if some players might not agree with it.
      *cought*


      KILL THRILL n SPILL wrote:

      I don't agree with an econo reset. I've worked to get the money I have. As have many others. Some choose to spend it, some choose to save it for when the moment is right.

      Lowering salary while AFK for more than 3 minutes makes it pointless to AFK. Which makes it pointless to break into anyone's home and kill them. I do see a lot of players who don't play as often come back from a 3-5 month hiatus and start demanding an econo reset. Ghost would be the exception to that.

      But I have also noticed a trend that those who tend to go broke in the casino are the same ones who keep asking for a reset. Why punish those who save and grind to have the money, just because you keep spending all of it in the casino or other things?
      *cought* :whistling: :whistling: :whistling:
    • The problem with simulated economies is that like micro said, there is no outflow of funds from your money while the income is untaxed and your margin of profit is too high.

      Micro had a few suggestions I think are aimed in the correct direction to fixing the problem. The only reason we ever have used economy resets in the past is because of no opportunity of risk in money you have and can obtain.


      I’ve always had a few ideas that I feel like will work well if we continue with the “Season” type of game. This involves no economy resets but does take money and return it at the beginning of the next season.

      all my ideas tie together, I will state how at the end.


      First idea(inspired by micro): Property Tax for homes
      With this idea I would suggest taxing a flat percent rate for houses under (threshold amount) and if the house price is over put in a declining percent rate along with a luxury tax that is a tiered rate.

      Second idea(inspired by micro): Challenge Chips [premium currency]
      With this suggestion I would be suggesting a premium currency that is NON-TRADEABLE. Yo can use a defined amount to receive 30 days VIP. You can not stack the 30 days on top of each other. You receive these from top tier challenges and only have a small chance of receiving such.

      Third Idea: Tax on high tier items that just raises the price of items on client side and puts the money into a separate account untouchable by the player until the end of the season.

      Fourth Idea(ties in with other tax ideas): Seasonal Tax and Tax return
      I’ve used the word tax a lot in this post, but we have no government for the tax to go to so what would the point be? In short it just lowers profit margins (initially) of many goods and for players that have money. How it would work is whenever you are taxed it goes to a third unlisted “seasonal bank account” that at the end of the season you are given 51% of it back in either a lump sum or you can turn it in for (1 million = 30 days VIP, claimable once and rest would be returned to your regular bank account).

      Fifth Idea: Rework of lock system
      I’ve always hated that we could have multiple locks it just looks silly. This would be a quality of life fix as well as an overall gameplay change. I believe we should add in three tiers of locks and remove the lock breaker entirely. Without locks your door WILL NOT lock.
      There will be three tiers of lock picks and with the third tier it can break tiers one through three whole two can only break one and two etc etc. Blowtorch could still be used as a new “Super Lock breaker” and is reuseable 5 times as to be able to make it through an entire base If you so choose. With this new system each door can only have one lock at any tier you choose.

      Overall most of these suggestions are not ways to help you become more wealthy it’s meant to do the opposite but only in a way that will not permanently rid of your hard earned money— instead it will be seasonally locked.
    • Mico & Eld have some good ideas posted here, alot of it could work well in "Envision"

      Studying Econ I have struggled with the simulated economy we have long term. Currency is created at a way faster rate than its spent. I think rather than taxes so much, we need items to be added or reworked to provide more opportunity to spend money.


      I added the blowtorch to facilitate a degree of "rarity" among items to create more of a exchange between players in order to redistribute wealth and add a way to break into bases. I think it has worked rather well and un intentionally, the No-crime software has also taken a market form.

      This line of thinking is carrying itself forward into envision with the crafting/trade system sidezz was working on. We eventually want to open a market web based exchange. there will be a degree of RNG when crafting something, and if you craft a rare enough item from rare reagents, you will see that reward in your market exchange. All of these features should be built ontop of the current system i have stressed.


      Stuff like the cuff-saws and door hacks being one time use, with no cool down and varying tier levels would be a fair trade off. Also the in game money to VIP currency has been talked about before and I am open to it.

      I like the idea of a bail bond system as well.

      I will talk to sidezz a bit about these ideas.

      I notice Kill is voting disagree on every post in here so i am curious what he has to say.




      For the record, I reverted the afk change. It should not be happening anymore.


      A change is due, its been 3 years. But it needs to be done with good intent. I.E. new mod, new economy rules, and add rewards for players who currently have spent alot of time in the game.

      We had yearly resets in the past and it was fine, but we have evolved since then. We focused more on the end-game content and mico began making maps which kept things fresh.

      There is no time-line for this, right now we are still brainstorming and writing code for the mod. Nothing is confirmed or planned other than my above conditions must be met.

      I still want to keep ELO on a seasonal basis however, that is un related to money/property entirely




      I expect more discussion around this as its obvious there is a demand for some changes that will help us in the long run avoid any kind of reset necessity.
    • The player's that have alot of cash are the ones that play alot. Why hurt them with a economy reset. We just need new items to spend our money on, like Car's,Custom guns. I think lowering AFK money and not getting kills for AFK players detours players from breaking in houses. It's not worth breaking locks to get nothing. Raise up vandalism dailie price, I always reroll it because you don't get nothing for it. Just that might help us Spend money on Lock Breakers.
    • Never been a fan of getting a disagree mark without reason posted below about why. Is it due to the fact that we are trying to minimize the disparity between players to keep things fair but still in the benefit of the longer term player Unless the skill disparity is so high? Or is it because you want the rich to get immensely richer and untouchable from those that have not put in time and cannot possibly ever do so as you have such a head start
    • If we’re looking at radical changes to the game I have an idea.

      As has been said, a big problem is that we’re all earning more than we spend. So the game has become about hoarding tons of money in case of a feud with another player demands tons of lockbreakers etc. I’m certainly against a straight up economy reset. Total Resets don’t level the playing field, they just annoy players who like to save.

      Here’s the idea…

      1. Bank accounts get reset back to $0 every time you log in. Items and Houses are saved.
      2. Money earned from work is increased by a factor of x8 (so 900 gms of drugs becomes worth $43,200.) Prices for stuff and houses remain unchanged.
      3. Get rid of buy back vendors.

      So a player who is active for a couple of hours can quickly build up from zero to a £1mill+ bank account. So it encourages actual play on the server rather than endless afk. Increased work (planting / printing, robbing etc) would lead to tons of bounties, giving everyone something to chase and cops faster XP.

      When a player wants to leave (or as they earn it) they would then have to spend their bank money on stuff, mainly guns, locks and lockbreakers I guess, so the feud protection is taken care of.

      No one with a brain is going to DOC.

      New players would find it easier to rapidly get to a competitive money level but if they were dicks the threat of an instant ban becomes potentially very costly to them. (Same for all players in fact)

      For players (like me who like to save and like building a big number) a highscore list based on value of Items works too. Getting rid of buyback prevents people just buying 100’s of doorhacks and converting them back to cash each time. (which would actually be pointless)

      This idea might also work with Items being reset on disconnection and banks being saved, but I think getting more stuff bought will mean more stuff used, which should lead to more actual roleplay.

      Just an idea and the speed at which players can earn money might need adjusting, but a rapid path to propper wealth for players who put in descent chunks of consistent working time seems appealing. Coding wise (I am not a coder) it seems simpler than some of the other proposals.

      I’m totally happy for this idea to be kicked to shit by sensible reactions.
    • Captain Cock wrote:

      1. Bank accounts get reset back to $0 every time you log in. Items and Houses are saved.

      2. Money earned from work is increased by a factor of x8 (so 900 gms of drugs becomes worth $43,200.) Prices for stuff and houses remain unchanged.
      3. Get rid of buy back vendors.
      This would have little to no effect as you are just displacing where the money is stored.

      1. Instead of a user having $20,000,000, they will have 20,000 lock breakers.
      2. Increasing money earned is pointless as people can throw down plants and AFK for 15 minutes already.
      3. This only reduces DOC, it does not eliminate it as your drugs in your inventory are not reset.
      4. In the event of plugin crash, game crash or server crash there will be far more headaches for admins than this method is worth.

      If you went to sleep every night and woke up to having no money in your wallet would you be happy?
    • Displacing where the money is stored is sort of the point. We can reset banks and encourage doing jobs without long term players loosing wealth. In the event of a plugin crash, which happens, I think we all agree that there are some losses but that's life.

      I think I have a slightly different view to Mico, of the game and what might improve it.
      The idea of connecting then going to sleep is exactly what I think is wrong with it now. New players see a busy server then connect only to find a ghost town with everyone afk for days hiding in fortress houses.

      I think the social / interacting / doing stuff / killing buying loosing occasionally (loosing a lot if you can't shoot for shit like me), getting mad, doing stupid shit - is kinda fun.There's sort of a reason to do that. Connecting only to then go do something else seems a bit pointless. Afk for days to get money to do what? buy more locks for the fortress where you stand still for 12 hours?

      But I concede that not all of my idea was really thought through and Mico has some good points.
      Seems to me what we need isn't more complication with taxes, loans, exchange rates and regulated fiduciary bi-laws. Gawd!
      How about some sort a new high cost item on a house sort of level - no feckin' idea what that would be myself.

      Over to Mico...!
    • Captain Cock wrote:

      Displacing where the money is stored is sort of the point. We can reset banks and encourage doing jobs without long term players loosing wealth. In the event of a plugin crash, which happens, I think we all agree that there are some losses but that's life.

      I think I have a slightly different view to Mico, of the game and what might improve it.
      The idea of connecting then going to sleep is exactly what I think is wrong with it now. New players see a busy server then connect only to find a ghost town with everyone afk for days hiding in fortress houses.

      I think the social / interacting / doing stuff / killing buying loosing occasionally (loosing a lot if you can't shoot for shit like me), getting mad, doing stupid shit - is kinda fun.There's sort of a reason to do that. Connecting only to then go do something else seems a bit pointless. Afk for days to get money to do what? buy more locks for the fortress where you stand still for 12 hours?

      But I concede that not all of my idea was really thought through and Mico has some good points.
      Seems to me what we need isn't more complication with taxes, loans, exchange rates and regulated fiduciary bi-laws. Gawd!
      How about some sort a new high cost item on a house sort of level - no feckin' idea what that would be myself.

      Over to Mico...!
      With what Sidezz is doing with the new mod:
      discordapp.com/channels/274629…460480/656684576436912128 or the server: 104.153.105.245:27024
      Everything we are saying here may become irrelevant.

      "How about some sort a new high cost item on a house sort of level - no feckin' idea what that would be myself."

      This would be making items such as door hacks limited use. See my suggestion above. But you would need more than just those items. As an example is Weapons, they are 'Limited use', but they cost very little compared to how fast money can be obtained. Mean while with VIP, Spins, Crates etc.. you barely even have to purchase weapons.

      Micobot wrote:

      3) Give certain items such as door hacks limited uses based on the tier with all of them having a 20 second cooldown. Because let's be honest here, Doorhack, Cuffsaw, Lockpick are one time purchases that do cost a pretty penny but only once. Which doesn't mean much when you account for the fact the eco resets only happen after several years and you can make the money for those items within a day.


      "The idea of connecting then going to sleep is exactly what I think is wrong with it now. New players see a busy server then connect only to find a ghost town with everyone afk for days hiding in fortress houses."

      Even with your method people will make their fortresses, AFK all day and sneak to a bank when they have a chance.

      I get where you are coming from but the issue is that in the current system, even using your suggestions where we remove the money from a players bank when they leave there is nothing that stops a player from being able to gain money and stock pile it. The system needs a 'leak' a consistent, measured leak that can be scaled according to wealth.

      So if you decide to stock pile to $20,000,000 you'll have to maintain that wealth or else the 'leak' will slowly pull you back down to a standard wealth of say $500,000. This doesn't account for inventories but something could be worked out.
    • i really hope this new gamemode or w/e works, i dang near gave up on the server since even if u play 5 hours a day and save money you'll never outpower those willing to leave their computers on 24/7... and i know it's been said before but i always cringe when i see new players leave upon the realization that at any given time the server's player count is only 15% of what it says, and that they could never make more than someone that doesn't have to join for 24 hrs to make 100k
    • Looking back through my time here on Syle's and on other servers, my AFK money is miniscule compared to the amount of money I have earned through real gameplay. A majority of my money has always come from grinding and completing dailies. If I AFK'd for 24 hours straight at my current wage of $44, I'd make 63k per day. That money could be made in 3 or 4 hours of planting/printing as a new player. If I am making 2m of AFK money per month, AFKing 24/7, that is relatively comparable to someone that plays daily for 30 days printing/planting. If a player is really grinding and completing dailies, without AFKing, 2m per month is not difficult. I do not think AFK wages are the main issue in our in-game economy. Money/hours is a form of status in HL2DM RP, so it only makes sense the players that play more have more.

      As far as setting up the game mode to cater to new players, this is silly. The game is 15 years old, new players that will stick around are far and few. Old players are the base of HL2DM as a whole. No amount of Russian children that join and leave should sway management towards changing the entire system. DOA is correct, work to add features and ways to spend money. Sidezz said it best years ago, when Nick released 3.2.2n HL2DM RP became a group of old men sitting around growing cactus. Everything is time-based, AFK is integral. This will never be Garry's Mod.

      That said, eco-reset would not be the worst thing in the world when paired with a new map and new features. You must give old players something to show for their dedication to the server though. Some sort of Prestige system, possibly tokens based on your pre-reset money/hours/items. Just my 2 cents.
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