I highly agree with Thundershorts' response above. It is a very calm and collected neutral minded response and provides the best explanation of the current system and why it works a majority of the time with some very minute outliers.
i could make hardcoded bans but i can absolutely guarantee none of you would like it
anyway i wanted to go through the examples nemo gave since they were all my punishments (lol)
paul - cop strips are the only area where i tend to go higher since being a cop is a privilege we give to players and being a dick with it intentionally is basically just spitting on us for giving it to them. so cop strips are always in the 3 months to 1 year range, they always have been for intentional douchebaggery with no remorse.
china - was banned for 2 months because as doom said we follow a doubling system, every time a player is banned for doing something they've done before their ban will be double the last one. since chinas last box kill ban was a month he got 2 months. which he appealed and got shortened, which brings me to another point; punishments are never finite. a player can always appeal whatever they were punished for and if admins feel it is unfair the punishment will be reduced/revoked. syle or volar can undo anything for any reason and they do.
templar - he was stripped one rank, if he had 4200 xp he still would have been set to 3500. i dont understand how this is unfair given that the same punishment would've applied to any other cop who had done the same thing.
the entire point of having admin discretion is that every situation is different and every admin is different, there cannot be consistency in a system that requires discretion
After more thinking and taking other comments into consideration I really do feel as an automated system just wouldn't work. You, Thunder and a couple others made some
really good points as to why that wouldn't work, every situation is different and you really can't program all that into a system. Maybe I was over thinking the whole situation, and tbh bans are really none of our business. That's between you and the player that broke the rule.
As for cop strips, I agree the punishment should be a little more harsh as that is a trusted position. Anyone that abuses cop or admin should pay the price, defiantly more than a rebel offense.
I apologize for starting such a heated thread.....can't we all just get along and play fair!!???"If his destiny be strange, it is also sublime."
“From a caprice of nature, not from the ignorance of man. Not a mistake has been made in the working. But we cannot prevent equilibrium from producing its effects. We may brave human laws, but we cannot resist natural ones.”
The only people getting extended or 'next level' bans are the repeat offenders... the ones who for what ever reason.. keep stealing candy from the corner store after they were caught and warned the first time.
If the banning system was so very concrete and fixed there would be no risk. Thus the fine line would be played on.
Think of how CS:GO handles bans in competitive match making for team damage / kicking / getting kicked.
- You often get a 30 minute, 2 hour, 1 day or 7 day ban. The ban severity increases over time. However the length isn't concrete.
- I could do team damage one game, and get a 30 minute ban and then a few games later get a 7 day ban for the same reason.
- It'd all be based on how much damage I am doing to my teammates and if the game see's me doing a lot in the future.
- You can also get banned for 30 days up to Permanently if the game sees you as a repeat offender and sends your gameplay to Overwatch for manual review by other players.
This is all based on the simple fact you are hurting your teammates in competitive play. So the reason never changed, it's the circumstances that caused the ban to change.
So if we look at how CS:GO handles it, it's just like how admins here can handle it to. If you made a little mistake you may get a 30 minute small warning ban. If you repeat offend, the ban length will increase.. and depending on the situation you may even skip the 2/ 24 hour bans and go straight to 7 days. If you still don't get the message after that... well the 30 days to permanent may come into play.
edit - Point is you have chances to change your attitude / ways with smaller bans even on a doubling system. But the players actions prior to, during, and afterwards will very often effect the ban length they will receive.
The post was edited 1 time, last by Micobot ().
I agree with mico 100%. I always smite first and tell them not to do it again.2nd offense is a kick, and then I ban if you come back and break the same rule. Then the bans double for breaking said rule from there on out. It’s as easy as going into sourcebans and using steam Id to check all said players bans. Anyone with an extreme high ban length has earned it, you can go check for yourself in sourcebans and do the math. We’re not gonna hold your hand and keep warning you about rules you either know or should have read by now. Think about this, if you don’t abuse/break rules, you have nothing to worry about.
Nemo , we do appreciate your efforts here to help establish further fairness within the ban system. Maybe Blarts cop suspension could use a little adjustment. The idea of an automated ban system has come up in the past , and this prompted the admin team to try to follow a ban doubling guideline. Experienced players who have been abusive to our staff would prefer the automated system because it would get them the same ban as a player who hasn't been a douche bag , and who accepts their ban gracefully. They would prefer a system that has no memory of shitty behavior towards the staff and players. It's only natural for an admin to consider player experience and other interactions when submitting a ban.
If you're a friend of Blarts , maybe you could suggest he do a ban appeal.
Going to close this thread , thanks to all for your input.