Gang Jobs & Hacker Balancing

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    • Gang Jobs & Hacker Balancing

      Do we need more gang jobs and is hacker too good? 8
      1.  
        No : Yes (4) 50%
      2.  
        Yes : No (2) 25%
      3.  
        No : No (1) 13%
      4.  
        Yes : Yes (1) 13%








      Hacker Balancing
      Hacker and Snowden are arguably overpowered because they make the most money by far, I do believe hacker needs some adjustments but it could also just be that there's too many computers in one area, hackers get their money quicker when there's less distance to travel between computers, this is arguably a map issue and not a problem with the job itself.

      As for snowden, there is a 50% chance to get +1 software, this may not seem like a lot but I can definitely say that I've gotten thousands of extra software and made millions off of this alone and that is a bit broken balance wise. I believe a good modification for snowden is to either guarantee that you don't have "tricky computers" (meaning that you don't need to hack a computer multiple times) or make it less likely that you do have tricky computers.

      Gang Jobs
      There's too less gang jobs and snowden is the only reliable specialty to make money (and as if right now, is the best way to make money). There undoubtedly needs to be more gang jobs, at least modifications to the original jobs like snowden is to hacker so let me offer some suggestions:

      Robber - 25%-50% quicker robbing speed
      Counterfeiter - Decreases chance of printer explosions but $4000 less max printer capacity
      Drug Grower - This one is hard, but some ideas I had were that there's a chance that you won't use materials when growing weed, 50+ max grams, etc...
      Drug Runner - Chance to not be charged for starting a delivery or make it guaranteed
      Bounty Hunter (may be unnecessary) - Triple the bounty instead of doubling it

      These are my ideas. Please let me know if you agree with me, and do suggest some tweaks that can be made and leave your own ideas.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Mandrew - Wonderland_War ().

    • Well it looks like hacker got nerfed. Bank Account Software used to give $450 on average per software and now it's $250, I do find this to be a bit of an over correction. The problem was more of the amount of computers in one area and how often you get bank account software. I had a lot of bank account software stashed up and now their value is plummeted because of this change.

    • The game is always evolving thanks to new features etc. Because of this , we sometimes need to do some balancing of different job strengths. This map may have had too many hacking terminals then the job was originally designed for. Thanks for your concern and thoughtful input on this matter Mandrew. Thanks to the dev team for making adjustments.

    • Something that bothered me a bit in particular is that TH3_CR4ZY_L3K4 had 10,000 Bank Account Software, he cashed it all out and only got $2.5 million ($4.5 million was before the nerf). It's a lot of work for arguably mediocre pay. $3.25 million instead would be more balanced in my opinion.
      At least for me, hacking can get tiring particularly because of the constant running, the intense focus, and never cutting corners.

      Here's some other ideas:
      I am under the impression that just because something takes a lot of skill, effort, etc... that doesn't always mean it's balanced and hacker does apply to that principle too. Removing some computers in the map makes the hacker put a little less effort into getting money while also removing some money too.

      Here's some specifics on computer placement rules I had in mind:
      • Have 2 computers in each building on average and make 3 computers more rare.
      • Don't make computers only accessible with lockpicks and doorhacks unless it's inside the PD
      • Get rid of extra computers like ones seen in the train tunnel (those being the boat, hula doll and the toilet)
      • Create more computers that deviate a little from the main path in compensation for less computers being in one particular area. Be creative too like adding a computer on top of the shell building or even turning the computer monitors in the prop shop (or prop shops) into real computers to hack.


      In my opinion, you can apply either of these 2 ideas (or both) and 10,000 Bank Account Software is made much more while to get while hacker can still receive a fair nerf.

    • Recently the Drug Runner job was nerfed, it did not need to be. It requires more activity than hacking or weed/printing so it should be more profitable. Maybe hacker needed a little tweaking, but the changes seem to be a bit much for me. It is becoming more worth a player's time to sit inside a house and generate money. We should encourage player activity.

      Everything was well balanced before recent changes were made. Hacker just needed some percentage tweaks for software.

    • So I found the job hacker as good as it was before. I think you could place less computers and the reason why the job was paid so well was also justified, it was up to the player how much he could earn through the job hacker. If the player hacks often and invests a lot of time and energy in the job, you were rewarded with a lot of money. But the way the job is now, you have no interest at all in investing a lot of time and energy in the job anymore, because you are not rewarded nearly as well for your work. So that's my opinion about it.


      since the change i haven't hacked anymore and honestly i don't plan to because it just frustrates me. i spent 10k bank account softwares and only got 2.5 million and i don't think i need to mention how hard i worked to get the 10k softwares. and when i saw the 2.5 million i knew i wont use the job anymore because the pay for the work and effort i put in is not fair. if some are upset about the job being too well paid then thats not my problem the decision is up to each individual how much money they make on the server and how much they dont.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by TH3_CR4ZY_L3K4 ().

    • The Doggy wrote:

      Yeah I think the nerf to drug runner was a bit much, I'll revert that back to what it was but hacker will stay the same until I find another way to make it a bit more balanced or someone comes up with an idea that works well.
      Tie the software payout to a multiplier based on the # of computers on the map. Fewer computers, higher payout. This will help it scale according to way the map was prepared.
      - Highscores - Maps -
      - ReturnHex.com -

    • Onyx wrote:

      The Doggy wrote:

      Yeah I think the nerf to drug runner was a bit much, I'll revert that back to what it was but hacker will stay the same until I find another way to make it a bit more balanced or someone comes up with an idea that works well.
      Tie the software payout to a multiplier based on the # of computers on the map. Fewer computers, higher payout. This will help it scale according to way the map was prepared.
      I do like that idea but at the same time if admins put a bunch of computers somewhere that's hard to get to like deep inside the PD then that will reduce payouts significantly for everyone, we could just make sure that all computers aren't behind any locked doors or have payouts tied to every computer individually but that just creates a fuckton more work for admins which I don't really want to do.

    • The Doggy wrote:

      Onyx wrote:

      The Doggy wrote:

      Yeah I think the nerf to drug runner was a bit much, I'll revert that back to what it was but hacker will stay the same until I find another way to make it a bit more balanced or someone comes up with an idea that works well.
      Tie the software payout to a multiplier based on the # of computers on the map. Fewer computers, higher payout. This will help it scale according to way the map was prepared.
      I do like that idea but at the same time if admins put a bunch of computers somewhere that's hard to get to like deep inside the PD then that will reduce payouts significantly for everyone, we could just make sure that all computers aren't behind any locked doors or have payouts tied to every computer individually but that just creates a fuckton more work for admins which I don't really want to do.
      Forgive ignorance regarding the difficulty of implementing this but;

      Most routing people take from what I can tell on freemancity often disregards the PD computers. If computers had a default flag i.e 1 = normal & 2 = 'special' we could ommit those flagged 2 from the reverse multiplier. Sort of like 'bonus' computers.

      The additional work and delay it takes to get to those computers would in theory help offset the additional money they can produce by not being counted towards that reverse multiplier.
      - Highscores - Maps -
      - ReturnHex.com -

    • Onyx wrote:

      The Doggy wrote:

      Onyx wrote:

      The Doggy wrote:

      Yeah I think the nerf to drug runner was a bit much, I'll revert that back to what it was but hacker will stay the same until I find another way to make it a bit more balanced or someone comes up with an idea that works well.
      Tie the software payout to a multiplier based on the # of computers on the map. Fewer computers, higher payout. This will help it scale according to way the map was prepared.
      I do like that idea but at the same time if admins put a bunch of computers somewhere that's hard to get to like deep inside the PD then that will reduce payouts significantly for everyone, we could just make sure that all computers aren't behind any locked doors or have payouts tied to every computer individually but that just creates a fuckton more work for admins which I don't really want to do.
      Forgive ignorance regarding the difficulty of implementing this but;
      Most routing people take from what I can tell on freemancity often disregards the PD computers. If computers had a default flag i.e 1 = normal & 2 = 'special' we could ommit those flagged 2 from the reverse multiplier. Sort of like 'bonus' computers.

      The additional work and delay it takes to get to those computers would in theory help offset the additional money they can produce by not being counted towards that reverse multiplier.
      That could also work but then it's another issue of how do we determine what should be a bonus computer and what shouldn't? Is one door enough to fulfil that requirement or should it be 2 or 3 etc. I don't really want to enforce a limit of the amount of computers in a map but that might be one of the more optimal solutions for now.

    • I have a few ideas that are random but are worth some consideration imo (they vary in how much work it would be to implement them) (and honestly might be a bit excessive)

      1. Hacking software becomes what is essentially a cooldown bypass tool, you still have to hack successfully yet you get the 2 software as a result. (The suggestion of less tricky computers works wonders here too)

      2. Reward streaks. Discourage retries... I'll call this Password Stealing Software       (or like database access like mav has) password stealing software would be required to hack, but is given on each successful hack. Make it cost 10 dollars and essentially be a small money sink for hackers. (if the 1st suggestion is at play, password stealing software acts as the less powerful hacking software)

      3. "iCloud storage" make a bank of software that replenishes similar to the casino. This would work similar to my scrapper system on my plugin where the software is limited and you have the choice between a few options however it made it more competitive. Kinda a shit option ngl.

      4. "Dumb Internet Cafe Customers" rather than deleting some of the computers, they run on a random clock and only a certain number or percentage of the computers are available. (This would need tags such as the PD ones being always available and not counting towards the percentage). This would make it a lot trickier. Rather than sticking to one path constantly they have to repath very often. This would make it so much easier to fill the map with double the locations but have even less computers. I think of it as people forgetting their laptops around and you snoop while they're away.

      5. (really just 2.5) When a player is on a streak announce it to the server like when banks are being robbed.

      6. (really just 2.75) Make a printer variant that creates Password Stealing Software/Password items.

      7. (really just 3.5) "Google Drive" give players a limit of software they can hold. (upgradable storage?) (Make it so that legacy players can't increase but don't lose anything)

      8. "Whitehat Hacker" cops can lock a pc for a small cooldown, giving them a (small) cash bonus. Kinda OP if cops wanna disable a snowden or smth.

      9. ban people who hack more than 5 times in a minute. :)

      10. Definitely not number 9
      CSGO CoLD Admin. Mapper. Server Destroy Supreme Master Extraordinaire. sniper
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    • What if we just add more software that gets in the way of Bank Account Software? Banking Software arguably does this and Vendor Software used to do this too, they aren't very good softwares but it does bloat. Vendor Software doesn't have to be rare anymore.

      Bank Account Software gives an average of $250 and 3 is the 3 random softwares you may get (bank account, nocrime, and banking).
      There is a 33% chance of getting Bank Account Software. This is the amount of money you make from a single computer hack without snowden on average:
      250 / 3 = 82.5
      Or $83 without snowden
      With snowden, we multiply by 1.5 because snowden has a 50% chance of procuring an extra software.
      82.5 * 1.5 = 123.75
      or $124 per hack with snowden.

      How much money should a computer give you per hack on average?

    • Onyx wrote:

      The Doggy wrote:

      Yeah I think the nerf to drug runner was a bit much, I'll revert that back to what it was but hacker will stay the same until I find another way to make it a bit more balanced or someone comes up with an idea that works well.
      Tie the software payout to a multiplier based on the # of computers on the map. Fewer computers, higher payout. This will help it scale according to way the map was prepared.
      I don't like this idea for a few reasons.
      1. Why use bank account software on a map that has a lot of computers when I could just save all the softwares for another map? It's more efficient to do this, albeit not the most practical.
      2. All maps seem to have a similar number of computers so it wouldn't change that much.
      3. Less computers means less effort and with this system, a map with a lot of computers would pay out similarly to a map with low computers, so less effort, same pay.

    • Mandrew - Wonderland_War wrote:

      What if we just add more software that gets in the way of Bank Account Software? Banking Software arguably does this and Vendor Software used to do this too, they aren't very good softwares but it does bloat. Vendor Software doesn't have to be rare anymore.

      Bank Account Software gives an average of $250 and 3 is the 3 random softwares you may get (bank account, nocrime, and banking).
      There is a 33% chance of getting Bank Account Software. This is the amount of money you make from a single computer hack without snowden on average:
      250 / 3 = 82.5
      Or $83 without snowden
      With snowden, we multiply by 1.5 because snowden has a 50% chance of procuring an extra software.
      82.5 * 1.5 = 123.75
      or $124 per hack with snowden.

      How much money should a computer give you per hack on average?
      I was wrong. Here's my new estimation of the chances of getting what software:
      50% chance to get Bank Account Software
      25% chance to get NoCrime Software
      12.5% chance to get Banking Software or Hacking Software
      0.025% chance to get vendor software (this number may be inaccurate)

      For my personal statistics to calculate:
      2044 hacks in total
      981 Bank Account Software
      539 NoCrime Software
      292 Banking Software
      227 Hacking Software
      5 Vendor Software

      I should arguably hack more for a larger sample size.

      Bank Account Software give $250 on average and you have a 50% chance of getting Bank Account Software, so that's $125 per hack on average, with snowden it's $187.5

      I still find this to be quite low even for snowden.